Subtlety Rogue PvE guide: Hemorrhage and Rupture build for Forever raids

Overview

Level 60 · Subtlety Rogue · DPS in dungeons and raids.

In Classic, Subtlety was a PvP tree with little to offer in raids. Forever gives it a real damage plan built on Rupture. Serrated Blades makes Rupture stronger and ignores armor, Hemorrhage makes the target take more Rupture damage, Thousand Cuts makes each Rupture tick cheapen your next Hemorrhage, and Quietus adds execute damage. The spec plays like a bleed rotation: keep Rupture and Slice and Dice rolling and fill with Hemorrhage. Premeditation and Preparation give you an opener and a second use of Vanish and other cooldowns. Treat this as the least certain Rogue raid build until someone can compare it in game.

Your job in the group

You provide sustained bleed damage that ignores armor, which makes you the Rogue to bring against heavily armored bosses that do not resist bleeds. Maintain Rupture, the Hemorrhage debuff and Slice and Dice, and take Improved Expose Armor’s role if the raid wants a Rogue on armor reduction instead of a Warrior. On trash that dies in a few seconds, accept lower numbers: the spec pays off on long single-target fights.

Why play it

• Armor does not matter much. Serrated Blades and bleed ticks keep damage steady against plate-wearing bosses.
• Cheap filler loop. Thousand Cuts lowers Hemorrhage’s cost while Rupture ticks, so a smooth rotation rarely starves for Energy.
• Strong execute phase. Quietus adds damage to Hemorrhage once the boss is low.
• Extra safety. Preparation gives a second Vanish and Evasion for threat mistakes and cleave accidents.

Weak points

• Bleed immunity: targets that ignore bleeds remove most of the damage.
• Ramp time: it needs Slice and Dice, Rupture and the Hemorrhage debuff running before it reaches full output.
• Unproven: this raid use of Subtlety is new to Forever and has not been compared with Combat or Assassination in game.
• Path points: Master of Deception and Heightened Senses add nothing in a raid.

Level 60 talent build

Assassination 20 / Combat 0 / Subtlety 31, all 51 points. The talent tree above shows the finished build.

Subtlety (31)

• Master of Deception 3/3 — no damage option exists in the first row, so these are path points.
• Opportunity 2/2 — bonus damage to Ambush and Garrote openers.
• Setup 1/3 — the one point needed to reach tier three.
• Elusiveness 2/2 — Vanish returns sooner, which is also a threat drop.
• Improved Ambush 3/3 — an opener crit to start the Rupture cycle with extra points.
• Initiative 3/3 — more combo points from Ambush and Garrote.
• Ghostly Strike 1/1 — a second builder with dodge for moments when a boss turns to you.
• Heightened Senses 2/2 — less spell and ranged damage taken; filler to unlock tier five.
• Premeditation 1/1 — two free combo points at the pull for an immediate Rupture or Slice and Dice.
• Serrated Blades 3/3 — armor penetration for every hit and a large Rupture bonus; required for Hemorrhage.
• Dirty Deeds 2/2 — cheaper Garrote openers and the gate to Quietus.
• Preparation 1/1 — resets Vanish, Sprint and Evasion; required for Thousand Cuts.
• Hemorrhage 1/1 — your builder, and it makes Rupture hit harder while it lasts.
• Quietus 5/5 — extra Hemorrhage damage once the boss drops low.
• Thousand Cuts 1/1 — each Rupture tick lowers Hemorrhage’s cost, the heart of the Energy loop.

Assassination (20)

• Malice 5/5 — crit for Hemorrhage and the requirement for Lethality.
• Ruthlessness 3/3 — finishers often refund a point, handy with two buffs and a bleed to maintain.
• Murder 2/2 — a general damage bonus against Humanoids and Giants.
• Improved Slice and Dice 3/3 — less time spent refreshing Slice and Dice between Ruptures.
• Relentless Strikes 1/1 — Energy back after every five-point Rupture.
• Improved Expose Armor 1/2 — if you are the raid’s armor debuff, this refunds a point and costs less Energy.
• Lethality 5/5 — Hemorrhage is on the Lethality list.

Rotation and priority

1. From Stealth, Premeditation then Ambush or Garrote; Initiative often gives you enough points to finish right away.
2. Put up Slice and Dice first, then build with Hemorrhage and apply a five-point Rupture.
3. Keep Hemorrhage’s debuff on the target so every Rupture tick benefits; Thousand Cuts lowers the cost of each Hemorrhage while Rupture is ticking.
4. Refresh Rupture as it expires; spend extra points on Slice and Dice or Eviscerate only when both are already running.
5. Below 35% health Quietus boosts Hemorrhage: keep building and refreshing Rupture, since the priority does not change.
6. Use Vanish into Ambush during the fight when threat allows, then Preparation to get Vanish back.

Resources

The spec lives on Thousand Cuts: as long as Rupture ticks, Hemorrhage stays cheap. Letting Rupture drop makes the Energy loop collapse, so refresh it before anything else. Premeditation is an opener, Preparation is a second Vanish and Evasion, and neither should be saved for a perfect moment.

Stat priority

1. Hit, because a missed Rupture costs a full five-point cycle.
2. Attack Power, which scales every bleed tick.
3. Agility for crit and attack power.
4. Crit, mainly for Hemorrhage and Ambush.
5. Main-hand weapon damage; Hemorrhage hits harder with a dagger in the main hand.

Gear and set bonuses

The Rogue Tier 1 set in the Forever data is Grimstitch Armor; the piece names and drop locations are still withheld in the client. Its bonuses: 2 pieces +1% hit, 3 pieces 3 sec off Kidney Shot’s cooldown, 4 pieces +36 Attack Power against Humanoids, 5 pieces 5 Energy off Envenom and Eviscerate. This build gains the most from the two-piece hit. The five-piece Eviscerate discount matters less, since Rupture and Slice and Dice are your main finishers. Undead and Elementals ignore the four-piece bonus, so do not chase it for those raids.

Consumables and professions

• Attack power over crit: Juju Power, Elixir of Giants or the Forever equivalents raise bleed ticks directly.
• Weapon: a dagger in the main hand for the Hemorrhage bonus; the off hand can be a fast sword or dagger with Instant Poison.
• Poisons: Instant Poison on the off hand; poisons are a smaller part of this build.
• Potions: Thistle Tea to keep up with the Rupture cycle after a movement phase.
• Professions: Engineering for explosives, or Leatherworking to craft your own leather pieces while gearing.

Sources

Rotation, stat and matchup advice adapts these Classic 1.12 guides to the WoW Forever talent trees; talents, set bonuses and new abilities come from this site’s WoW Forever data.

• Icy Veins: Classic Rogue DPS Guide
• Icy Veins: Classic Rogue DPS Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities
• Icy Veins: Classic Rogue DPS Stat Priority
• Icy Veins: Classic Rogue DPS Enchants and Consumables